Jotform Agents and the Future of the Web ft. Aytekin Tank

In this engaging episode of the AI Rebels Podcast, Aytekin Tank, CEO of Jotform, dives into the transformative journey of Jotform's 18-year history and unveils the revolutionary upcoming release of Jotform AI Agents. Aytekin shares the company's origins as a solution to manual form creation frustrations and its evolution into a powerhouse with 25 million users and 50+ million forms created globally.

This conversation explores:

• The inspiration behind Jotform AI Agents, designed to replace traditional forms with conversational AI-powered agents that streamline workflows and enhance user experiences.
• The role of AI in democratizing technology, empowering businesses of all sizes to scale and innovate with ease.
• Insights into the challenges and breakthroughs of integrating AI into existing products, emphasizing collaboration and user feedback.

Aytekin also discusses the broader implications of AI for businesses and individuals, envisioning a future where AI enhances creativity, efficiency, and entrepreneurship. Whether you're a tech enthusiast, an entrepreneur, or curious about AI's impact, this episode is packed with valuable insights.

Stay tuned until the end as Aytekin shares advice for navigating the AI revolution and how to get early access to Jotform's cutting-edge tools!

https://www.jotform.com/

Transcript

0:06

hi everybody welcome to another episode of the AI Rebels podcast we are very excited to have Adecan Tank here with us the CEO of Jott Form which I'm sure a lot of you have heard of if not used or current currently using job form very successful really great mission that we're excited to talk about and some very exciting new developments and products that are in the works uh thanks for coming on Adekin hey Jacob hey Spencer I'm glad to be on your show I'm really excited about it yeah I adekin can you give us a little background on you your journey particularly your journey to AI where you've been and where you're going yeah my journey is actually pretty long journey now uh it's been 18 years since I started job form um so before job form I was working for this media company and um like and I was a programmer I was this um you know developer and one of my duties was to like create forms like we had like all 100 websites and uh and I was creating all kinds of forms like contact forms surveys questionnaires uh like contest entry forms things like that and I kinda hated it uh I wanted to like find a way to get rid of it like I tried to find a product that can actually take this away from me but I couldn't find one that's why I decided to start chat form uh so 2005 uh summer like I just you know uh walk walked upstairs and uh told my boss you know uh I'm starting my own business and and then uh the next day I started working on job form and it's been uh you know long time almost two decades now and um so Jack Form has grown now like 25 million users and offices in seven different uh locations and um 700 employees so it's it's pretty big now and um and we have we help people create forms and you know uh so far like 50 million forms were created with just form and um just like you know we help people with automating things uh not just like forms but we see form there's just the first step in the journey right um so when you fill out a form your goal is not to just like you know fill out a form it's you're trying to get something down right you're trying to register for for an event uh you're trying to apply for something you're trying to contact some someone you're trying to buy something or something like just uh people fill out forms because they have a workflow they have something to be done a task they need to be done and so because we see our like our goal as the you know our job is to help people automate these things um in all the years we we have developed developed all these additional products like you know you can have this workflow you can have approvals uh you can generate documents you can like you know we have a e signature product as well like just like we have like so many products uh but basically we are still you know uh doing that form stuff um and then once people actually need any anything additional like we have all these additional products to help them out um so but but then this actually brought us like the with the new AI revolution it's just like you know what's the next step uh when we look at the next step it's it's the AI and uh so a year and a half ago um so you know you know after I had my third child like I took some time off um and this was like two years ago and like during this downtime and I was just looking at what like what was happening um around and um and I saw the AI and you know and I have like during my career I always heard about AI like just AI is gonna be the next I think but this time it's it's very it was very clear that AI is like real this time it's not some you know some toy it's just something real and it's really useful and you can really build products on top of it like just it was very clear uh like we have been trying GPT before the church GPT and we have seen that but with the church GPT it was even more clear and and and the thing is like you know you might have a technology but people will not use that technology until like consumers actually use that technology right um so it's like you know personal computers right people started using them at home and then businesses like everybody started using them you know the um if you look at like mobile phones as felt like people first used it ah you know personally and then they also use it for business as well so with the AI I think with Chechy PT ah people are now starting to get used to using Chechy PT like you know everyday like you know when we are doing homework when we are working you know with with my kids like when we are trying to stuff like they're they're actually asking all their questions to Chechy pity and like with the voice mods uh I don't know if you use it it's just so easy like just talked it and then they are constantly asking questions to Chechy pity and just getting all these great answers and learning and it's it's not like just cheating for the homework I think it's like real it's real resource it's not like they're really learning stuff and they're when I was like when I was a kid I didn't have a computer I didn't have internet when I had a question haha haha and now now that consumers are now used to like really using AI I think it's just time for like uh businesses to also use AI so um I was thinking about that uh and during that downtime when I had my third child so I was thinking about like what can we do a child form so that like um instead of forms what if we what can replace forms like can we replace forms with AI right can we disrupt our own business uh I've been thinking about that but at that time I actually didn't figure that out uh like so but I knew that the answer was AI so a year and a half ago so we already had these AI engineers in our team like because we have been dealing with all these like fishing spam all these like you know machine learning uh staff to be able to catch the bad guys so I took them and I said okay let's start building something with AI uh I don't have I don't know what the product is gonna be like just uh let's just build a co pilot for the child form form builder right just like people can chat with the AI and then build their forms and uh so that that's how we started like just uh build this like you you you go to the chat part you ask like I need a form like this it creates the form so we released that to like a small number of users and the people were actually liked it but they actually wanted more so we now we actually move this uh chat part into the product into the form builder so you can actually talk to it and then you can build your form uh instead of using like you know the regular tool you can just talk to the shit about and then it actually does the stuff for you so that was also going well right at this time like we started thinking about like how can we make this like use this all over just from like all of just from products and then and not and we started talking about Asians like what if we had Asians that can actually do different things right what if they can communicate with each other and that actually brought us the the the idea that uh we are you know working on right now which is just from AI agents uh basically so as soon as we discovered that like okay really people are writing like really uh love to talk to chat parts and describe what they need and and then we discover the idea for Asians that it was very clear to me like the solution like that that product that's gonna replace forms is actually like a chatpot uh basically that can actually fill the form for you as for your communication and so that's why we called it just from AI agents and uh so like that journey started with like uh three people now hundred and twenty people are actually working on the product and it's like you know we we are a company of teams like so there are like you know usual teams are like five to six people uh like so around 20 teams are working on the this uh this product um and we are gonna release it in February and we call it just from AI agents and uh it's basically about replacing your forms with these AI agents that can uh like do all these things for you like they can uh the AI can uh talk to the user uh fill out the form for the user like just by conversation by answering uh asking question as phone question but also but most importantly it can actually answer questions like it's it's not just like filling out the form but it's also you know whatever quick because you have built this knowledge base you can actually enter uh data you can upload files you can give your website so basically you are pre programming the AI you're you know training your AI to be able to answer questions about your business uh whatever the form is about and then and that's just the beginning like just the uh you know not just fill out forms or like answer questions like what else AI can do like can can the AI actually have the um you know knowledge about the customer so it can do things for them like uh you know answer specific personalized questions for them so that part is probably not gonna be uh you know be released in February but uh the basic parts uh about like you know the answering uh questions and Female Forms is gonna be released uh in February and um I'm really excited about this um I feel like the AI agents are kind of the feature because imagine a world okay let's imagine a world where everyone has their own like AI agents right you know it's like you're clone of yourself or every business every organization have AI agents and let's say you are in the middle of the night right uh maybe you need to talk to your school maybe you need to talk to some business and ask a question right uh like you can actually talk to their AI and then find out ecryd information quickly in whatever like medium you prefer like if you wanna talk to them on on the phone you talk to them on the phone if you wanna like just text them you can text to them or if you wanna you know uh just write to a chat part you can also write uh on their website or or just directly to them and on any kind of like a messaging platform so the idea is that uh basically you know you can do customer support you can do sales you can you know you know all kinds of things that involve people communicating with people champion handled the AI so this is this is the challenge that we try to take oh and I think we are going so well and the better users are actually showing us like people actually like it they use it and they are really excited about it yeah which is that I think a lot of uh what the fuck really underestimate just how annoying haha shoot one of the most annoying things to deal with in web development so jot form has already probably saved developers you know haha I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that and this is this is a really cool evolution of that because like you know it it it changed the form builders from from you know the web developers to your your communications team or whoever and now it's it's kind of it's it's reducing that friction even further and that's what's so exciting about this world it's like there's so many so many pieces of automation that that uh we built over the last you know 15 20 years or so for computers that are now even more effective and and and even more brought the applicable with AI yeah I don't know why companies like Job Farm are honestly what have allowed the innovation and progression of the text space I mean the human race in general but cause you think of like our brains if you're busy as a web developer if you're like oh man I gotta build these forms that brain capacity is taken up and you're unable to then think farther down the road you're unable to innovate your you're just your brains taken up and so things like this are what allow innovation to happen yeah I feel like these like AI is kind of like continuation of like there's no code like movement right so in the past uh like the software was very rigid like there are like very limited things that you could do with no cord you can actually kind of build your own solutions on top of software because software is much more flexible is less widget so you can actually like customize it build things and then build so you don't have to be a programmer to build things like you can just uh build your own solutions uh and job form is like just part of this like movement uh where like these products uh like allow people to build their own solutions and an AI is just gonna make this even like much more uh flexible just you know you'll be able to build whatever product you want and and and usual people talk about like how you can like AI can write code and then build products I don't think that feature is like very soon like just you know as a like a person who have been developing products for millions of people it's just like you know even with like very smart people it's just very hard to build good products like just uh but uh if you can actually give AI all these like pieces that fully functional fully text tested pieces and it it if it chant like like uh bring them together like put them together to build a product then it's gonna really and then customize those products uh instead of like writing quotes from scratch I think there is a you know you can really build your own products that face it's just uh it makes so much sense like that AI can actually put those pieces together customize those pieces and then like give you this end product that like exactly does whatever you need I think that's the feature in terms of software yeah so exciting um her head spins oh I was gonna say that's I think something that that um a good point that a lot of people need to understand about AI right now is that like um you can you can go you know you can go write an app with with Peer AI code um you'll get probably 70% of the way there and then that last 30% is gonna be really painful um AI is not never gonna replace total well I'm not gonna say never um there's been I maybe someday maybe some but for now AI is not going to replace uh just just solid engineering principles um and those kind of have to be at the the root of of products um anyways continue Jake what were you gonna say I was just gonna I was gonna ask at again uh huh is there any way we can get a sneak yeah yeah I want to share it uh with the arable audience uh I want to share this um uh product um let's let's take a look okay uh defined ha ha okay so um so this this is not available uh yet like if you uh if you go to this page you know it's only available because um I'm logged in but uh if you go to jetform dot com slash AI you are able to actually kind of enter the waitlist and maybe get early access um so but let me talk about the product we uh envision uh and then we actually build them the basic idea is that like forms are boring um they are slow um they are not they're they're they're boring like when you look at these AI agents like you know they have faces you know that they are not real faces but it's still like we are human we wanna we wanna actually look at other like faces it doesn't have to be human it could be animals as that like just we we prefer like personality we wanna talk to someone with a personality as a possible just this boring form with feels on it and we wanted to make it so that it's just like it's it's so easy to use it's not harder than like a form but you can actually like you enjoy uh like having a you know having a conversation with the with this um you know uh with with the uh AI agent and like just as you're talking to like uh get your questions asked for it fill out forms like you know upload the things like do everything you can do with with a form but even better so um and we are gonna have things like you know agent directory where you will be able to like you know find specific agent tablets like to start with like just make it easier but in in generally like you can just start from very early like just let me just start with this um just you know start an agent from scratch right you know um so what kind of agent we can create right this is a podcast I think one of the things we could do is like what if he did like um you know podcast you know um right um survey maybe you know survey are you you maybe we wanna survey the uh arables uh customers alright prefer us a agent that can um you know uh find out if if people like the podcast and how we can improve and find out find out how to improve so right let's just whatever we need like we just type it like instead of thinking about the technology we just think about whatever we need um and then basically what it's doing behind is like um it's creating a form because that's actually what we do we have form but it doesn't like yeah it just work without forms as well like you can have warm form you can have like no forms or you can have multiple forms uh that your agent can fill out but because our like where we are really strongest forms like we wanted to also create forms but then this form can also um like just um um you know it doesn't have to be about just female forms but it it's also about um you know answering your questions or taking some actions right so you want to give it a personality like just you know you can upload uh pictures or you can pick uh you know uh you know in a water like just here you know we have you know ah something that's like you know really kind of related to podcast or related to you know doing a survey which one do you prefer ha ha uh Lila's good right there okay that is good yeah okay yeah um so yeah um and then you know you know usually when you when when people do check buses like there's no like pictures like you know boring but our goal was to kind of like replace forms with these uh you know uh conversations and more make it more lively so we want we want to have like colours we want to have personality so it's just uh like we want to build a designer for it not just focus on like the functionality but also you know give it some cool cool things and people actually like to put these um AI agents as check pass on their websites so they want to really be able to like customize the design as well to make it fit and some people actually upload their pictures here and then uh just show themselves and I kind of did that like I have a site ITIC intang.com and uh I just put there ITIC in AI uh and you can just go there and check it uh ITIC in AI and just I just put my picture there and uh made it clear that it's AI they are talking to though ha ha make sure they uh they don't get confused um so so once we designed it uh the next step is kind of uh uh like help the AI give answers and take actions like just how do we do that uh with the train tab no no no no no no no no no no no no no so basically you know we have a name for the AI like we can actually uh give it give it a role uh for podcast improvement analyst you know audience engagement advocate um yeah um listener experience consultants like you know um just pick one and then like how chatty we wanted to be like just a do I think we wanted to keep it minimum just no don't talk too much and uh save some time uh as well yeah and then here we can actually add our prompt here like if you wanna like just give some AI some feedback about how they should be we can just add here uh you know be funny be funny and make sure um and make sure uh right uh I mean usually if you're a business maybe you don't want this but maybe if you're podcastive maybe this is fine yeah um so like language uh tone of voice right we want it to be maybe friendly is good um yeah friendly is great and we can also put knowledge base we can put information about um this is for the ah for the um AR Rebels podcast and um you know uh Jacob um Jacob and Spencer um right um Jacob and Spencer um I have a microphone in front of me so it's hard to write ha ha yeah uh you know um a circus um uh hosted by Jacob Espresso um so we added some knowledge we can always um you know prior the link uh prior the you know uploaded documents or cringe so actions are more about like you know um like just uh distracting the AI agents to do things uh these are kind of like um like tools or the uh prompts that you could do but we want to make it easy because like you know most of the tools most of the AI agent tools are kind of giving people uh like these text areas and it's really hard to know like what to answer them so basically we still give them text serious like people actually write text and then from there like we kind of learn like what kind of prompts people wanna provide or we interview better users and ask them like what do they want uh the uh agents to do and from there I will learn about it and then we we just add those things to here as well um if the user sentiment is like you know excited um excited um um maybe ask them to you know um like talk about um maybe ask them to kind of um uh you know review um give a give a review on uh Apple Podcasts yeah yeah um so um you know forms is like we already it's already created a form for us uh we can take a look what kind of form we created and uh podcast listen feedback so it's gonna ask these questions and if you're not happy about these questions we can always let me see if we can edit here yeah we can we can always uh go here and just like um you know remove anything or add any question we want um I think the the the form looks great uh so this is the regular judgment form builder um so I think the questions are great um yeah so uh let's go back and then and this is my favourite part uh basically like instead of using these areas you can actually talk to your agents and uh just in try the instructions directly to your agent as opposed to like you know uh giving his prawns or anything like you can just have have a conversation with your agent and uh tell it to do something and um right um like what can we ask um musket to do um any ideas haha add a question for what has been your favorite AI Rebels guest okay um uh make sure to ask them what Hoover their um Air Rebels guest it's thinking a lot so maybe it's trying to take an action uh because uh you know it's it can also like change things here like it can actually kind of uh do things for you um I added little something to my objectives now I will be asking you this about your arable guest too uh yeah this looks good yeah it's good wow so good okay um so uh let's see what it added maybe it added something to knowledge I don't see anything maybe actions uh maybe persona um yeah uh ask you this who the arables guess was but I think um it doesn't really understand us correctly um so you see they're arables like their favorites right that was cause maybe I wrote it incorrectly favorites uh because of this microphone uh very there yes sir okay we added this question as well uh and it's good okay so let's take a look right um so um you can actually use AI agents uh in different ways um you can use them with a link like you can add edit to your webpage you can have a maybe you have a flyer that you wanna add uh a credit code where they can actually chat with and um you can embed it on your websites um you can actually have like this um you know uh talk to the agent by phone and um and you can also give people this uh mobile app where they can actually install this PWA app on their computer and then talk to the agents um yeah like this yeah so it's uh it takes you ask the question right away who was your favourite guest um on the first question ha ha ha so it's actually uh you know I want to give feedback get info about podcast okay so basically it's also asking me these initial questions um let's let's take a look at the uh agents uh let's open it in a new tab so here we are talking to Lila um right um uh yeah let's let's have some questions right um get in for about the podcast um yeah okay this is good so it's also giving us some uh you know uh feedback um yeah I can provide some feedback okay yeah sure um it's asking if I wanna fill out the form like just answer those questions um yeah I'm taking tongue so I provide an email address of incorrect email address let's see if it's gonna catch that it's actually you know we were actually catching that and essentially there is a way to um and if also go back to the form so it was it had a problem catching the name but um like I can just you know um uh maybe just not summit it but just change it okay um um so my own episode maybe haha yeah 5 stars yeah ha ha ha uh if it was me ha ha ha like my own voice ha ha um what can we improve I don't know it's all good yeah yeah I should be back I should be back when we released the product perfect uh huh yeah that's it no oh um yeah it's great wow this is amazing and then you know I can do a review it actually missed my name here and um well let's see if it missed anything else and summit so basically um my my submission my former submitted but I can you know continue to ask my questions and you know communicate with the agents uh so you know this is I'm gonna stop sharing and uh yeah this is this is how it works I'd be curious what was kind of the trickiest part of this product to build um yeah it's it's I think the trickiest part was to kind of switch between different modes like between like you know fulfilling experience and answering questions or taking actions um so it's it's hard to kind of decide uh like um you know for example if it's filling out of form should it's actually kind of uh makes like not context to each two different things but just stay on the tasks um so just um I will say uh it's just basically like this maybe you know even though we see a single agent there's actually a kind of like multiple agents behind so basically the the agent that's responsible for filling out forms is a different agent and the agent that's like answering questions is different like the agent and taking actions it's not really different but it's also like use it it uses tools as well like just so it's um there is like different things it does uh so making sure catching those things is important um so that was the trick part but it's you know uh it's it's kind of it's it's also about like building a good product is also about like kind of working with people right getting people to use this product so basically you know we have better users and you know with their permission we are actually you know watching all these sessions and we are learning from these sessions like and we are seeing like the AI is making all kinds of errors so and it's it's never gonna be 100% I don't think because AI it's like like it's just like how people chat like is never perfect AI is never gonna be perfect but we as long as we keep getting better and better I think that's that's good enough uh and people understand that people people see this as like uh similar to like people make mistakes and AI also makes mistakes so you can't have an AI that's can do so much and so smart and also not make mistakes it's impossible it's part of the part of part of the kind of uh you know being able to perform tasks for humans it's very confusing it's very complicated complex things uh uh so so it's basically like we are trying to like you know get many people to use the product and why they use the product like we we see all the problems we fix those problems and try to get to like you know at least 99% of accuracy and do things that people want and uh just talk to you know people who use the product like interview them and find out like what they like about it what they don't like about it you know some people actually want it to be hundred percent some people want I cannot use this I cannot give this customers if it's not hundred percent I understand that and yeah but even those people you know they say you know I'm actually gonna give this product to myself people so when they are talking to the customer they are gonna be able to like you know sound like junior salesperson like someone is asking a question on the other line and then they are typing the question to AI and then the AI giving answer and then they are repeating the answer to the real customer like uh so they there are like different kinds of use cases like uh you know but most people it's it's okay like it doesn't have to be 100% 99% is okay and people understand there's also having some human in the loop like just you know people seeing this conversation like we send an email this like when this conversation ends like usually like maybe if I leave the browser open it's just gonna wait for half an hour and then send it to the owner of this agent or if if someone leaves and then we send it instantly or you can just go to your conversations inbox and just even see like live conversations happening and then we haven't implemented that but maybe you can just join the conversation and then take over from the AI and start talking with the actual cost of customer client yourself um so basically uh having some women in the loop uh giving AI feedback I think it's just like we have to have that otherwise it's just like AI is not gonna get the job done it's first uh first like first time but if you keep giving feedback if you keep improving like just uh adding all these like actions knowledge uh answers um also with the with the knowledge uh and the challenge we had was like um people were adding like too much knowledge uh like uh like they were and then the it's AI wasn't able to answer that so we actually implemented this rack solution to be able to uh like just um implemented the database to be able to kind of uh better instruct AI to be able to answer the question and that made a big difference uh so and yeah it's just you know people use it and we learn from it and improve it yeah I'm I'm curious do you anticipate this becoming the main product the main idea behind jot Form going forward I do because um I mentioned that feature where uh instead of like just doing these like very uh you know using these rigid software or like just filling out these rigid forms like what if every organisation every person every you know business has like a their own agents where like in the middle of the night right right I can just uh like you I wanna talk to you know school or or like an organization or a business and I have a question right uh you know I don't need to talk to a human right just I can call them up or I can just go to the website uh go to the chat part and just uh talk and get answers and maybe buy something and learn learn about it and just maybe um you know uh set up something for myself so basically uh this also like kind of democratizes uh like uh likes um things for small businesses so in the past like at this you know big business they can always you know have hundreds of uh software developers or like you know hire these big companies like SAP or you know uh other products and and then they can just like build a product uh that people can use to do things but uh with the AI it's just you know they can just like maybe talk to the AI okay this is what I need and this is what I need to do for my customers I have hundreds of customers thousands of customers right uh get this down for me and then the AI can actually get it down for them uh it's just like levels to you know you know ground for everyone uh and then like it it makes small business like uh scale much easily like they can actually you know do things at scale even with like you know you have this corner store and then you can still scale to you know large number of customers yes I mean it's been so fun on the podcast yeah ha ha we had um the CEO of Julius AI on and they at the time now they've grown a little bit but I think they had what do they have five employees Spencer yeah I wanna say with like 500,000 users crazy yeah it's making these like you I liked it the way you said it's democratizing yeah yeah and sounds like job forms gonna kind of be the means of doing that yeah it's really exciting wow um so are you scared about it sounds like it's all exciting at job form is there anything that you're scared about related to AI um I mean in the very long term obviously you know we are all scared uh you know AI taking over everything right and uh you're just gonna um you know uh we are just gonna left with nothing to do right uh I think that's a very long uh long term uh feature um I don't see that's like uh that big of uh like I you know they're they talk about AGI and things like that um there's some truth but it's like it's just like even if you do all of AGI it's just gonna be like you know another person right it's just gonna be yeah very smart person or a very smart business right um so it's just um it's not gonna be this uh like Skynet kind of thing uh I think that's uh of obviously that's that's still possibility but I think it's very long term um but in the short term uh I'm really excited I'm really optimistic uh because you know uh it's just this democratizes um so fair uh this makes so fair so much more flexible um everything so much more flexible like you know it doesn't have to be so fair right uh uh maybe robots can actually also do things for us like you know physical robots as well as well they're gonna be able to like do lots of things for us um so it's just uh because we are gonna be able to do so much more I think we are gonna be able to uh like you know everyone is gonna be benefit from this as well like just if you think about it like if you haven't moved to like you know driving cars uh if you were still like you know a horseback riding you know oh and it's just uh you know some people lose jobs uh you know uh from you know uh driving horse carriers maybe but uh but if you look at it uh it's actually you know create more jobs uh people you know uh are doing things so I think uh more boring jobs are going away but um more exciting jobs are coming and you know people are saying it's you know maybe this is because you know uh uh you know educate educated people you know they they might be more lucky you know maybe you know people who are not you know that uh they do like more physical stuff uh you know they may lose jobs right people talk about it but if you think about it they are also gaining so much power uh right there people who are doing like physical things now they are actually kind of uh they have more tools uh they have you know maybe they use robots uh they instruct robots so they're also managing so instead of doing things you are we are kind of becoming managers of AI and this means that everyone is doing much more uh than before so uh that's why I'm optimistic uh but I don't know know anything about the very long term future yeah I wanna quickly touch on something you said cause it aligns well with something the previous guests have said which is you mentioned that we've already had really smart corporations before and and a point that a previous guest Aiden Mclaughlin um made you guys should go check out that episode by the way quick plug for that episode um he made the point that we've already been dealing with superintelligences no yes I'm sorry this is I mean you pointed out yourself attic and that that that the agents that you're working with a job form are really uh you know kind of a swarm of of different agents all dedicated to a different purpose um it's gonna be really interesting to see how that evolves and how that evolves in concert with corporate structures of you know damn and if if you think about it you know corporations are not bad like um it's you know um we have all these great things because uh the corporations are making all these great products for us um you know so you know hopefully AI is gonna be you know similar in a similar way it's gonna do so many great things for us and and uh you know we we are gonna have much comfortable um you know um lives yeah yeah and I think this is a big fear of people that their job will be gone with AI but I think I guess two thoughts 1 if people just take a page out of job former's book I will you're you're taking a step back you're saying alright Pandora's box is open AI's here it's not going anywhere we're not gonna stick our head in the sand like what what does this mean for us yeah let's disrupt ourselves and that on a smaller scale to an individual is the mindset you need to have if you want to evolve and I mean really have such a larger impact in the world you need to take a step back say okay here's my job here's what I'm doing okay how is this gonna be disrupted and let me just let me beat that let me disrupt myself now choose to do it and do it my way then wait for someone to come in and say hey here's your you're fired you know like um right and then also I just I I just don't know if it's ever gonna get to the point where humans are not involved or sitting on their hands you know like I I just think I'm bullish on humanity and our ability to adapt if you think throughout time how how we've adapted I just I I'm becoming more and more an advocate of just like we're gonna figure it out no I think more people will become entrepreneurs so for example let's say there's a small business um you know the founder um owner has like five employees let's say you know if um the owner is able to replace these employees with AI right so um they are more productive they are available 24 hours a day like 7 days of week you know during the holidays but these five people they also have the power of AI so they are also becoming like entrepreneurs and they are you know do their own businesses so it means actually like we are creating much more value for the humanity and so everyone actually has uh likes everyone is providing much better services products to everyone else so now we are always like going up and up and up and just uh instead of doing this like you know uh boring jobs or like just uh like manual task we are actually kind of we are all becoming entrepreneurs we are all becoming managers of AI and like you know creating uh these services and you know uh I think that's like the number of entrepreneurs are gonna just boom because of AI because people will be able to like come up with ideas and then like just be able to implement those ideas much more easily with AI as we're as we're getting spent the end here I had a I had a question for you um and this one's slightly tangential um but I'd be curious to hear have there been any um cause like I said I'm a I'm a web developer by training so I I work with a number of different you know job form and job form alternatives uh in my day to day work um I'd be curious have there been any features from competitors that you've seen that have have motivated you to build this or do you as far as you can tell are are you guys kind of the first form building company in this space no actually um so before Jard form um like when I first started right that the question about the uh early days of Jard form where we just started out right um so um so I was I needed forms but I couldn't find a product that could help me like there were like um some products that really didn't work well uh but there was also Survey Monkey but uh it was good but it could only do surveys um so that's why it's just you know I had to uh start from scratch and build build this product so it wasn't uh there wasn't a a good product for me to be able to use um and that also like as an entrepreneur as a starter father like it's a great way to kind of find an idea is uh if you're actually doing something and and if you cannot find a product that can help you with right you have your own pain and from that pain you can actually learn like come off with startup ideas I think that's one of the great ways to find startup ideas I like that yeah I love that I'm and maybe one last question is for wrapping things up that we always like to ask is particularly with guests like you Attican where you are the CEO of the 700 person international organization and you're getting into AI now what advice would you give to someone listening to this show that one is either scared of AI what advice would you give them or someone who is thinking of starting a company thinking of getting into the AI space as an entrepreneur so um before I started my like when I when I graduated college um uh I was kind of I I wanted to build my own uh startup but I was kind of scared like I was I wasn't ready for it like I didn't have the confidence to start my own business I'm glad I didn't because uh I didn't know so much so I've worked uh for the media company for five years and uh that actually kind of taught me lots of things uh so it's uh I think that that is um really important um but also while I was employed there I took the time to kind of read everything I could find about like startups uh you know uh I was reading all the blogs I could find I was uh kind of reading all the books I could find on the topic um so and also like I was like developing these like you know uh small products like just releasing them and learning from them and uh not some became successful but building those side projects uh you know taught me lots of uh lessons about marketing about building a product about technology uh about you know sales customer support so I think it's important that diving just do something just do something and and learn and do something even if it's not successful you're gonna learn a lot and you fail you try something else so I don't recommend like quitting your job uh at that point like you I only quit my job because I knew that like this product was really um you know it could be successful like I was sure of that and I I actually had that confidence at that time to quit my job uh but um so it's just about like just keep growing keep learning and and and then you will know it when it's time to just go full time on your start up yeah yeah I love that and I just I'm so grateful you came on Atikin yeah thank you for having me once the product is out that would be fascinating to see how it goes yeah sure is there anything Aitken that you would like to share or say before we before we wrap up that we haven't asked or that you think would be important for listeners to hear uh yeah so if you wanna get into the read this uh it's uh platform dot com slash AI um and you know you can uh maybe get early access and try playing with the product and it's just we are just important everyday uh so it's not gonna it may be very different than what you have seen uh today but uh you know uh just you can also uh contact me you know on LinkedIn or um you know Twitter or or uh like just my website itintalk.com there's a contact forum and there's also AI agent there as well and uh just you know shoot me an email if you have any questions or if you if you need anything yeah awesome great we've had come on from a from a traditional non AI business who's doing a pivot like this and it's it's really exciting to see um I mentioned to Jake earlier this year that I thought that that we were gonna start getting you know guests like you coming on where where there were pivots happening we're gonna see more of it thank you so much for coming on um and and reaching out to us yeah thank you thank you for thank you